Ask Watches Of Espionage Anything, Part IV

Civilians Wearing Military Watches, W.O.E.’s Grail, A Perfect EDC Bag, & More

In this edition of the Dispatch, we’ll answer some common questions we get about W.O.E., timepieces, and the Intelligence Community at large. Many of these responses can—and probably will at some point—serve as stand-alone stories, but for now, here’s some additional insight on Watches of Espionage.

If you have any other questions, please ask in the comments section and we’ll do our best to answer them in a future article.

See past questions “Ask W.O.E. Anything Part I”, “Ask W.O.E. Anything Part II”, and “Ask W.O.E. Anything Part III”.

Is it OK for civilians to wear military watches or does this qualify as “stolen valor”?

(Photo Credit: Panerai)

Many watch brands and references are centered around a specific narrative and culture of professionals: the Omega Speedmaster and space exploration, the Rolex Submariner and diving, and IWC’s aviation watches.  With this marketing, there comes some form of cosplaying or larping and in general, this is fine and part of the fun of the passion. I will likely never travel to space, but I like the idea of wearing a watch that has and has been designed for that purpose.

(Photo Credit: James Rupley/W.O.E.)

Additionally, we have covered many military-inspired brands like Bremont, Marathon, and Sangin, which are intended for use by active duty and former military members. While they maintain a strong customer base in these communities, of course not all of the customers are tier-one operators. Overall, there is no problem with this and it is by no means stolen valor. “Military-inspired” is synonymous with tough gear that is meant to be used.

However, I do struggle with commercially available watches with a branch or unit insignia on the dial. IWC’s Pilot’s Watch Top Gun, Marathon’s USMC GSAR, and of course Panerai’s “Navy SEAL” watches. While I still don’t think this is stolen valor as such and don’t have a problem with people wearing them, I personally would not want to wear a watch with an insignia on the dial that I have no direct connection to, i.e. a unit I did not serve in.

(Photo Credit: Marathon Watch)

With “unit watches,” it gets more complicated and, in my opinion, depends on the specific unit watch and how much time has elapsed since it was worn by those who earned it. In general, I think watches with a specific unit insignia on the dial or caseback should be worn by those who earned them, not those who can afford to pay the absurd premium they command at auction. Customized Tudors, Omega, Rolex, and even Breitlings have sold for well over $40,000, a remarkable number. That said, at a certain point these watches do become collectibles and it is fine to collect them. Where that line is, is highly subjective.

What was your go-to EDC bag when you were at CIA?

W.O.E. in the Middle East, Sandstorm EDC bag.

As a Case Officer operating overseas, your job is to recruit spies and steal secrets. This calling requires frequent travel and operational activity in a range of environments, from diplomatic functions in European capitals to dark alleys in war-torn countries. A good EDC bag should support your persona (cover) and not immediately peg you as an American. This obviously rules out the tacti-cool bag with Velcro for your Punisher morale patch. While I was at CIA, I relied on “issued backpacks” that were purchased overseas and modified by CIA as well as man purses I acquired myself, most notably the Canvas Andrew Work Bag from Sandstorm, Kenya, a bag I still use regularly today.

Sandstorm Kenya

The fictitious representation of “Q” in James Bond is largely a figment of Hollywood imagination, but gear and spy gadgets have been an integral part of espionage since the early days of the Office of Strategic Services.  Prior to an overseas assignment, CIA Case Officers visit an obscure warehouse outside of Washington D.C. and are issued a range of gear from disguises and backpacks. For most assignments, the gear is not as exciting as it sounds, but there are some deep disguises available, as made famous by former Chief of Disguise for CIA, Jonna Mendez.

Case Officer’s EDC

The key for EDC bags at CIA is to use something that won’t make you stick out as an American, i.e. the ubiquitous North Face and Patagonia backpack. I spent much of my overseas time living and working in Africa and fell in love with a boutique manufacturer called Sandstorm, which makes canvas and leather bags out of repurposed safari tent material. The bags are durable and classy, at home in the back of a dusty Land Cruiser just as much as a first-class lounge in Amsterdam. They aren’t cheap, but nothing good is.

If you are really trying to blend in, or at least not stick out, my advice is to buy clothing and bags locally, or at least outside of the United States or your home country. Save the tacti-cool bags for range day and family trips to Chucky Cheese. 

Many microbrands you cover use watches or parts made in China, is this ok?

I’m a red-blooded American and in an ideal world, all tools would be made in America, watches made in Switzerland, and Whiskey distilled in Tennessee. That said, with the decline in American/British manufacturing and watchmaking, the reality is there are some great watches (and tools) that are designed in the US/UK, but manufactured in China and East Asia. In my opinion, many of these watches offer great value for the customer and I own some of them.

Elliot Brown Holton on Glomar Explorer strap (Photo Credit: James Rupley/W.O.E.)

Obviously, there is a stigma with “Made in China” and in some ways, this is warranted but the fact is that the country, and the region in general, has specialized in high-quality manufacturing at a cost-effective price. The computer I am writing this on, and the device you are reading this on, are made in China. There has been an effort to “reshore” manufacturing and watchmaking back to the United States, but much of these efforts have come up lacking, with customer complaints about price and quality control.

The key here is transparency. Designed/assembled/sewn in the USA can mean very different things and many manufacturers work to obscure the origin of products with clever language. I’m not saying that brands should lead with “Made in China,” or stamp the case back, but they should be at least open about it.

(Photo Credit: Atelier DE GRIFF)

There is a lot of smoke and mirrors in the watch and EDC industry and even “Swiss-made” means that the watch is assembled and tested in Switzerland but not that all the parts originate there. Legally, “Swiss Made” means “60% of production costs are generated in Switzerland, and at least 50% by value of all components is Swiss-made”, which gives a lot of wiggle room. While I won’t dime them out here, there are plenty of “Swiss watches” with significant inputs from China.

When you’re traveling abroad as a civilian with an Agency background, what is your EDC?

Case Officer’s EDC, just the essentials.

First of all, I think people put way too much thought into “Every Day Carry” and not enough into mindset, training, and physical fitness. I am a minimalist and generally carry the same thing I did at the Agency, no crazy whizzbang tactical tools, just the essentials: pen and paper, folding knife, over $300 in cash, passport, tourniquets, and a Surefire Defender flashlight. An external battery is a necessity also. Check out a past Dispatch on “CIA Case Officer’s Everyday Carry - EDC” for more on my reasoning and experience with these tools. My personal EDC hasn't changed much in two decades and it likely won't change anytime soon.

Assuming I can’t afford the real thing, how do you feel about homage watches as opposed to  “fake” or “replica” watches?

We wrote an article about the counterfeit watch industry (Read HERE) and several people asked what my thoughts are on “homage” watches like a Seiko modified to look like a Rolex Submariner or GMT. I don’t necessarily have a problem with these, but I would never buy one personally. It's hard for me to determine where the line between homage and fake is and I wouldn’t someone to spot me from across the room thinking I am wearing a Rolex, then come to find out it's a homage. That said, there are some “homage brands” like Tornek-Rayville, Benrus, and Vertex, that essentially brought these brands back to life, and that is something I can get behind (I own a Tornek and love it).

(Photo Credit: Modbrand)

Congrats on your first video and the launch of the W.O.E. YouTube channel. How did you come up with this unique format?

Our core competency at W.O.E. is storytelling, offering readers/viewers insight into our community through the prism of watches. The goal is to inform and entertain and while long-form articles (ie the W.O.E. Dispatch) are our preferred medium, the sad fact is that most people don’t read more than a couple paragraphs, preferring to take in bite-sized chunks of engaging video and photographic content. We knew video was inevitable and have been working on this for over a year.

The school solution in launching a YouTube channel is to have an influencer sit in front of a ring light and offer spicy clickbait takes and “Top 10 lists” of the best watches. At W.O.E. we always aim to do something different so we decided to take the concept of our Dispatch articles and convert them into mini-episodes. This concept will evolve as we gain more resources. We have been overwhelmed with the response and plan to continue to release an episode every 2 weeks through the end of the year. Check out our first four videos HERE.

What’s the best spy movie from a former Case Officer’s point of view?

I like thrillers/spy movies as much as the next guy. Jason Bourne, James Bond, and Red Sparrow are all fun and entertaining experiences, but they are far from the reality of true espionage work which is months of hard work and lots of writing, punctuated by exciting moments and “cool” operations. The fact is most intelligence work is boring and if the movies were accurate . . . they wouldn’t be that interesting.

Spy Game is one of my favorite movies and is entertaining, but also has threads of truth, particularly the training and mentorship of Tom Bishop, played by Brad Pitt. It’s still Hollywood, but a great watch, nonetheless. Argo and Charlie Wilson's War are interesting looks at historic CIA operations, however, I would recommend starting with the books. Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy and The Good Shepherd capture the methodical aspect of the wilderness of mirrors of the spy world, but also aren’t as exciting as the Bourne series. The Recruit is an interesting look at the training pipeline at “The Farm” and one that many from my generation watched multiple times prior to training.

(Photo Credit: Black Hawk Down)

Movies like Zero Dark Thirty and Black Hawk Down are less historically accurate, but interesting watches nonetheless. Regardless, if you want to learn about these events and what really happened, I would recommend reading the books first. Our W.O.E. Reading List (read HERE) is a great place to start.

Last but certainly not least, Spies Like Us is a comedy with zero historical accuracy but does have a real cult following in CIA. “Doctor” can be heard in just about every CIA Station around the globe. Don’t sleep on it.

If I’m down to two or three watches that all meet my criteria and price range, how do I decide?

(Photo Credit: James Rupley/W.O.E.)

One of the most common questions I get is people looking for help trying to decide between two or three watches they want to buy. Sometimes they are very different—like a Tudor FXD and a Breitling Aerospace—and sometimes they are similar references from the same brand. The answer is always the same, go with your gut. Continue to watch videos and read about the watches, but most importantly try them on at the store or borrow one from your watch friends. This is such a personal decision and nothing I say should impact your choice. Ultimately, go with your gut, and your budget. 

Is there any watch that’s a grail for you, something you’d trade your entire collection for?

W.O.E.’s South African-issued Tudor Submariner reference 7016. (Photo Credit: James Rupley/W.O.E.)

Yes, no. A “grail watch” is the ultimate watch for a collector, something that they would never sell if they were able to acquire it. Like the “holy grail”, this watch is often unattainable, or incredibly unlikely to obtain. It’s more of a fantasy than a realistic goal.

Pictured above is my South African-issued Tudor Submariner ref 7016 from approximately 1974, which is (was?) my grail watch. I acquired this piece from Ross Povey last year and it is my “prized possession,” I will never sell it.

A Rolex Milsub is another grail for me, but I wouldn’t trade my entire collection for one. (Photo Credit: Bonhams)

Moving forward, there are plenty of watches I would love to acquire including a Rolex MilSub and an Israeli-issued Shayetet 13 Tudor Sub 7928. That said, there is nothing I would trade my entire collection for. Many of my watches have personal value that transcends monetary value. The Breitling Aerospace I received from King Abdullah of Jordan (Read HERE) is probably worth a few thousand on the market, but to me, it is priceless. I have too many memories with that piece to let it go.   

How do I buy a watch for my wife?

(Photo Credit: Tudor Watch)

This is a tricky one. I have purchased Mrs. W.O.E. several watches including a Cartier Tank, Black Bay 58, and a Patek Philippe Gold Ellipse. Despite my best efforts to woo her into the world of watch nerds, she couldn't care less. The fact is that women have more competition for their attention (and money) than men. While this is a generalization I am probably going to catch some smoke for, women are bombarded by messaging for and tend to covet handbags, shoes, earrings, bracelets, and necklaces whereas men traditionally have fewer personal items to consider. The watch industry has been desperate to acquire women customers and has made some headway, but it's still heavily tilted toward men.

My advice is simple, bring your significant other to a watch store to try on a range of watches. If something speaks to them, then follow that thread. If not, don’t push it.   

What is your favorite strap and why?

(Photo Credit: James Rupley/W.O.E.)

When it comes to W.O.E. products, I am our first customer and if it's not something I would use, then it doesn’t get made. That said, each of our product lines is very discrete and developed for different use cases. Just because you like one of our straps doesn’t mean you will like them all.

The Glomar Explorer probably gets the most wrist time, particularly in warmer months. It’s such a versatile strap and works particularly well with both the Blue and Black FXDs, but also virtually any tool watch. With the new tightened strap keeper, there is no chance it is coming off your wrist.  Sizing can greatly vary on these straps, depending on the watch and your wrist size.

(Photo Credit: James Rupley/W.O.E.)

Second, I am a big fan of leather on field watches and divers and wear the Jedburgh, particularly on my older vintage pieces and watches like the Arabic Seiko.  From the start, it is a very comfortable strap with a low profile.

(Photo Credit: James Rupley/W.O.E.)

Lastly, I love all of our Five Eyes straps and wear them regularly. But when it comes to single-pass straps, I often defer to our past collaborations with Zulu Alpha and recently have been wearing the W.O.E. - Zulu Alpha 4.0 a lot. They are expensive, there is no way to sugarcoat that, but the quality of the hardware and fabric are night and day in my opinion.

(Photo Credit: James Rupley/W.O.E.)

The main point here is to find a strap that works for you.  There are so many variables in watches, wrist size, and preferences, that there is no one size fits all. I encourage you to read the (over 1,000) reviews on each product page and see what other people's experiences have been. Remember, it’s much easier to buy and try a lot of different straps than it is with watches…

What current Rolex model family would you buy assuming no wait list and cost isn’t an issue?

I am a big fan of Rolex, particularly vintage and neo-vintage Submariners and GMTs. I am a simple man and give me any Sub or GMT with an aluminum bezel and drilled lug holes and I will be happy. I have “expressed interest” in the new Black/Gray Rolex GMT Master II, and would love to get one, but I am not losing sleep over it.

That said, the one piece I would kill for (not actually) is the Titanium Yachtmaster. However, these pieces are almost impossible to get and I am not willing to pay the excessive premium on the secondary market or play silly games with ADs to get one. I am ok with that.

Watch buying advice?

(Photo Credit: James Rupley/W.O.E.)

Still, the most common question we get is on watch buying advice from newbies and experts alike. While the W.O.E. platform is geared towards telling stories from our community, we have considerable resources to answer these questions.  Please check out the following articles if you are new to the world of watches.

Advice for Buying a Watch

Best Watches Under $5,000 - Ask the Experts

Best Watches Under $1,000 - Ask the Experts

Best Military Watches

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This Dispatch has been reviewed by the CIA’s Prepublication Classification Review Board to prevent the disclosure of classified information.